On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:47:50 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
09:20:11 on Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Lance Lamboy
remarked:
So the claim that driving is more successful at fitting all people is
demolished.

There was no *absolute* claim to that effect. Indeed, it is your
absolute claim that PT is always more successful that is in peril.

That is not my claim. Sometimes a helicopter will be the best
transportation option. Othertimes a dog sled will be optimal. In Iraq,
it is foolish to travel in an unarmored vehicle.


As for Atlanta to Orlando, have you thought about taking a plane or a
bus? It is not at all clear that driving is more convenient for that
trip than public transit.

Everyone cringes when mentioning the bus in USA.

It beats driving.

Taking the plane will
be an economic decision. For a family of five, the car will likely win.

This will depend on the mileage cost. This will depend on what kind of
car the family has, how the car is driven, etc. However if we take the
IRS standard rate then you are right, the car will likely be cheaper for a
family of five.

--
Lance Lamboy

"Go F*ck Yourself" ~ Dick Cheney

Annabel Smyth wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 at 14:02:28, Roland Perry
wrote:

Yes, it will be true for some people. But try taking a train from
Atlanta to Orlando (rather than driving). Takes 2 days via
Washington!

I'm afraid those distances mean nothing to me - how long would it take
if you drove? I loved Amtrak trains when I used them, so I wouldn't
actually mind 2 days, but if it's a case of "going to Birmingham by
way of Bethnal Green", then perhaps not!

Is that Birmingham, Alabama or Birmingham, Warrwickshire?

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:45:11 +0100, Annabel Smyth wrote:

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 at 14:02:28, Roland Perry
wrote:

Yes, it will be true for some people. But try taking a train from
Atlanta to Orlando (rather than driving). Takes 2 days via Washington!

I'm afraid those distances mean nothing to me - how long would it take
if you drove? I loved Amtrak trains when I used them, so I wouldn't
actually mind 2 days, but if it's a case of "going to Birmingham by way
of Bethnal Green", then perhaps not!

Atlanta-Washington 637 miles~1025km

Washington-Orlando 850 miles~1368km

Atlanta-Orlando 439 miles~ 706km

Since there is no direct AMTRAK connection from Atlanta to Orlando, AMTRAK
does not appear to be the optimal choice for that trip.

--
Lance Lamboy

"Go F*ck Yourself" ~ Dick Cheney

Annabel Smyth wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 at 21:52:16, Greg Hennessy wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:27:35 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:


Aren't Express/Compact/Meetro stores more expensive?


Sainsbury's are, by miles. I don't go to them if I can help it.


They are a veritable Lidl when compared to Waitrose.

Well, that's true. But Waitrose is *always* expensive,

OK, I'm going to dispute this on Waitrose's behalf. :-)

I have a choice of Waitrose within 5 mins' walk, Sainsburys within 10
mins' walk, and Tesco within 20 mins' walk. When I need a lot, I choose
Sainsburys (I would prefer Tesco but it's too far). However, most of my
shops are done at Waitrose even though I'm far from well off - that's
partly because it's more convenient. That's not the only reason -
Waitrose may generally be more expensive than Sainsburys but their stuff
is also *much* nicer compared to the extra expense - so I make it better
value for money than Sainsburys. Waitrose also have some decent special
offers and some very reasonably-priced own brand products.

and Sainsbury's
only is in their "Local" format.

Sainsburys is neither here nor there. I personally think the quality is
no better than anything Tesco have to offer whilst the prices are
higher. I'd choose Tesco in an instant but it's further away. Last year
I sometimes took a bus to get to Tesco rather than walk to Sainsburys.

Mind you, it's dearer than Tesco,
which in turn is dearer than Lidl (we have both in our street, so I go
to Lidl unless I want stuff which Lidl doesn't sell, like cut flowers,
in which case I go to Tesco. Lidl is nearer and its coleslaw & potato
salad are much nicer!).

Never been there. I like Tesco; I like them more after having worked for
them one summer!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 at 11:18:01, Lance Lamboy
wrote:

Atlanta-Washington 637 miles~1025km

Washington-Orlando 850 miles~1368km

Atlanta-Orlando 439 miles~ 706km

Since there is no direct AMTRAK connection from Atlanta to Orlando, AMTRAK
does not appear to be the optimal choice for that trip.

No, nor it does!
--
Annabel - "Mrs Redboots"
(trying out a new .sig to reflect the personality I use in online forums)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:35:00 +0100, Paul Weaver
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:20:39 -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Groceries would be tougher, since many of them need to be put in the
refrigerator or freezer upon arrival; I doubt my landlord would go that far.
Unfortunately there's no delivery service in my area, so I drive the 3
blocks to the store every other week.

You'd have to go to the store every day or two if you were carrying food
back.

I manage perfectly well with using the bus and doing a shop at the
weekend only. I happily lug my bags to the stop, catch the bus and then
walk the last bit to my home. I accept it wouldn't be practical for a
huge family shop and only 1 person doing the shopping but I am amazed at
the extent to which people are seemingly unable to go food shopping
without a car. It's a fantastic illusion that the motor industry and
supermarkets have generated to perpetuate each others' trade.

The only food stuff I buy during the week is milk and possibly a treat
or something that I need to get for a particular meal.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:04:51 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:35:00 +0100, Paul Weaver
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:20:39 -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Groceries would be tougher, since many of them need to be put in the
refrigerator or freezer upon arrival; I doubt my landlord would go
that far. Unfortunately there's no delivery service in my area, so I
drive the 3 blocks to the store every other week.

You'd have to go to the store every day or two if you were carrying food
back.

I manage perfectly well with using the bus and doing a shop at the
weekend only. I happily lug my bags to the stop, catch the bus and then
walk the last bit to my home. I accept it wouldn't be practical for a
huge family shop and only 1 person doing the shopping but I am amazed at
the extent to which people are seemingly unable to go food shopping
without a car. It's a fantastic illusion that the motor industry and
supermarkets have generated to perpetuate each others' trade.

The only food stuff I buy during the week is milk and possibly a treat
or something that I need to get for a particular meal.

Yes. I don't have a car and I have no problem with groceries. Most
grocery stores do deliveries so why would a huge family have a problem.

--
Lance Lamboy

"Go F*ck Yourself" ~ Dick Cheney

Lance Lamboy wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:04:51 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:35:00 +0100, Paul Weaver
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:20:39 -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Groceries would be tougher, since many of them need to be put in
the refrigerator or freezer upon arrival; I doubt my landlord
would go that far. Unfortunately there's no delivery service in my
area, so I drive the 3 blocks to the store every other week.

You'd have to go to the store every day or two if you were carrying
food back.

I manage perfectly well with using the bus and doing a shop at the
weekend only. I happily lug my bags to the stop, catch the bus and
then walk the last bit to my home. I accept it wouldn't be practical
for a huge family shop and only 1 person doing the shopping but I am
amazed at the extent to which people are seemingly unable to go food
shopping without a car. It's a fantastic illusion that the motor
industry and supermarkets have generated to perpetuate each others'
trade.

The only food stuff I buy during the week is milk and possibly a
treat or something that I need to get for a particular meal.

Yes. I don't have a car and I have no problem with groceries. Most
grocery stores do deliveries so why would a huge family have a
problem.

I've got three siblings and when we were kids we usually had at least one
dog. My mother walked to and from the shops, about a mile each way, bringing
the goods home in a shopping trolley. Why are so many people wimps these
days?

Roland Perry wrote:
If forced to choose, I'd be crazy to choose the car.

Depends on what journey you are doing.

I meant only ever using PT, or only ever using a car.

#Paul

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote:

Indeed, I'd go so far to say that the world is a far worse place for
the obsession with cost that seems so prevolent at the moment.


Very true. The concept of "value for money" seems to have got lost.

For most people. the value of time is most important not the monetary value.
Transit people like to use the monetary value because they don't count the
cost paid by tax payers. When you hide most of the cost and use only
monetary value instead of time value , it is easier to make a favorable
comparison for PT

Of course then those comparisons are a lie, but it is well known that PT
supporters can't say hardly anything without lying. They think lying is
good.