On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:01:41 +0100
Bruce wrote:
Of course, the greater length, articulation and the rear section's
self-steering system make it different, but those differences are

They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

B2003

On 28 July, 13:24, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
On Jul 28, 1:15*pm, "Basil Jet"

wrote:
Maybe the bendy routes in London should have been introduced as new routes
constrained to follow the wider roads, instead of taking over existing
routes like the 73 and expecting bendies to turn from Stoke Newington Church
St to Albion Road without causing problems.

Yes, that would have been a good idea.

I think that getting rid of them all just because they are used badly
is every bot as foolish as introducing them into routes where they
cause problems.

I have commuted daily by bus on a bendy route and
they have approximately zero seats. I think that this may
have figured into the calculation to phase them out.

Nothing at all to do with them being Ken's busses and not
Boris' I am sure.

I think that a key reason that they are less pleasant for
cyclists is that the larger size of them results in there being
an increased frequency of ill-judged attempted overtakes (where
for example the driver drives as if the bus had zero length) and
fewer options are left for the cyclist when the bus driver offers
imminent death. Bizarrely, driving a bus in a manner contrary
to the recommendations of the highway code does not seem
to be considered careless or dangerous unless someone
is dead.

The aircraft industry and the HSE have recognised for
decades that routine unsafe operation results in routine
deaths, with a bit of luck the HSE will turn their attention
further towards road deaths and injuries while "at work" in
the near future.

On 28 July, 14:32, "Ian F." wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message

...

Not if your mind is rigidly set against the bendy bus, and you are
simply looking for excuses to get rid of it. *;-)

People who like BoJo hate the bendy bus.
People who hate BoJo like the bendy bus.
Simples.

Ian

Anyone who believes that would have to be.

On Jul 28, 2:52*pm, wrote:

Obviously the buses fault, nothing to do with the driver. Must be something
psychotic about the bendy part of it.

So you can't see why an 18m long vehicle doing this in front of you is
more of a problem than a 9m long vehicle? Really? In this case the
bus pulled onto the roundabout and immediately had to stop for a
traffic light, blocking my route to the exit. A standard length bus
would simply not have been a problem.

See above: your base premise is in error. *Do you cycle much in
central London?

Why would I? I'm not an idiot. There are these things known as buses and
tubes.

If you want to use a slower and more expensive mode (and take part in
the great virus incubation experiment while you do so) then that is
your choice :-)

I'm not the only cyclist to find bendy buses to be
disproportionately problematic.

If you can deal with a large bus then you can't deal with HGVs either so
therefor you should leave your bike at home, accept you're not competant
on the road and stop whining.

Once again, you are wrong. I can and do deal with goods vehicles of
all sizes, but the largest artics are not normally seen in the centre
of London during commuting time, and they also have quite different
characteristics - the tail of a bendy bus moves in *much* faster than
the trailer of an artic. Bendy buses are far and away the longest
vehicles and also the most common long vehicles you will encounter in
central London during peak hours.

The original comment was:
"Sharon Grant, Chair, London TravelWatch said:
"We have yet to hear a credible reason for scrapping
bendy buses..."

I think there are credible reasons for removing them from some
routes. I am not the only one to think this. Which indicates to me
that Sharon Grant is either deliberately ignoring some concerns, or
perhaps meant to imply "altogether" in her sentence, in which case I'd
agree that scrapping them altogether is probably unnecessary as long
as you get them out of the places where they simply don't fit
properly.

The great joy of London is that it's a human-scale city, you can walk
from St Paul's the the National Gallery, wander round for a couple of
hours then walk on to the West End for a show. Bendy buses are out of
scale, designed for a Continental model which Wren, Hooke and others
failed to have applied to London after the fire.
--
Guy

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:57:45 -0700 (PDT), bod43
wrote:

I think that a key reason that they are less pleasant for
cyclists is that the larger size of them results in there being
an increased frequency of ill-judged attempted overtakes (where
for example the driver drives as if the bus had zero length) and
fewer options are left for the cyclist when the bus driver offers
imminent death. Bizarrely, driving a bus in a manner contrary
to the recommendations of the highway code does not seem
to be considered careless or dangerous unless someone
is dead.

The aircraft industry and the HSE have recognised for
decades that routine unsafe operation results in routine
deaths, with a bit of luck the HSE will turn their attention
further towards road deaths and injuries while "at work" in
the near future.


Complete, over-emotive nonsense. The statistics will show that bendy
buses have an excellent safety record. If the figures really showed
that they were unsafe, they would have been gone long ago.

What few problems there are - and let's be in no doubt, they are few -
seem to be a direct result of other road users (car and lorry drivers,
cyclists and pedestrians) failing to take any account of the size of
the bus. Treating it as though it was smaller, then complaining
bitterly because it isn't, displays the head-in-the-sand attitide that
is at the root of opposition to these very fine vehicles.

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
MIG wrote:
HGVs and bendy buses are intended for different types of road. HGVs

Really? What types of roads would these be?

aren't allowed in all the places that bendy buses are, and I don't see
many bendy buses at Felixtowe.

I've seen HGVs in my narrow local high street trying to reverse into the
supermarket to do a delivery , but I've never seen a bendy bus there.


I was held up on a backstreet this morning by an HGV trying to turn
round by reversing into a residential cul-de-sac. Lost, evidently.
Shall we ban it?

Tom

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Jul 28, 11:10 am, wrote:

Tell me , are british commuter cyclists just particularly incompetant and/or
stupid compared to european ones who've been living with bendy buses
for years or are you all - what most people suspect is the case - nothing but
a bunch of tedious whingers?

I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some
time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are
common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have
wide, sweeping bends.

What, like the Uxbridge Road, where the 207 bendies will shortly (well,
2011) be replaced by a great many slow-loading single door entry double
deckers like we used to have? RMLs having departed in 1987, it's back
to the Eighties with Boris, then.

*sigh* It's not the interior or the fares or the roads, it's the bendy
bit that people object to, however much they dress it up. There's
probably a pill you can take.

Tom

In message , at 10:46:39 on Tue, 28 Jul 2009,
remarked:
I object to the collateral damage, so that's one person who isn't doing
any political posturing. I expect most people trying to cross the road,
but are blocked by a bendy-bus, are also more interested in the
practical objections.

Yes , we should ban HGVs too because they can occasionally block pedestrian
crossings and squish cyclists. 7.5 tonners are the way forward!

I don't see many HGVs in central London, as it happens. So it's not so
much of a problem. Changing them into smaller trucks is more difficult
too, because the cargo isn't self-loading like it is for buses.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
So you can't see why an 18m long vehicle doing this in front of you is
more of a problem than a 9m long vehicle? Really? In this case the
bus pulled onto the roundabout and immediately had to stop for a
traffic light, blocking my route to the exit. A standard length bus
would simply not have been a problem.

But you can see how long the bus is, why don't you take account of that?
Much as though you would probably prefer otherwise, in a head to head with
a bus a cyclist isn't going to win so why not just accept that fact and
stop complaining when buses get in your way. You can scoot around most
obstacles, buses can't.

Why would I? I'm not an idiot. There are these things known as buses and
tubes.

If you want to use a slower and more expensive mode (and take part in
the great virus incubation experiment while you do so) then that is
your choice :-)

OTOH theres little chance of me being run over.

characteristics - the tail of a bendy bus moves in *much* faster than
the trailer of an artic. Bendy buses are far and away the longest

So what? When you encounter a long vehicle for the first time I can understand
your concern , but since you deal with them every day whats the problem?
If you can't handle the vehicles on the road don't go on it.

I think there are credible reasons for removing them from some
routes. I am not the only one to think this. Which indicates to me

Some routes yes, where they simply don't fit. But not to get rid of them
altogether.

B2003

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Bruce wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

Do you cycle much in central London? I'm not the only cyclist to find
bendy buses to be disproportionately problematic.

I'm sure I'm not the only London road user to find cyclists to be
disproportionately problematic.

It is difficult to imagine a group of road users who are more
anti-social, showing, as so many do, scant regard for the Highway Code
and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians.

I'd be veryr interested to hear why you don't consider cabbies to be road
users.

tom

--
I had no idea it was going to end in such tragedy