On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:00:56 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

You bloody what? When you say 'Continental', is the continent in question
North America, or have you just lost your marbles? Or, perhaps, never been
to a European city?

No, you're right, I've never been to a European city. Apart from
Brussels. And Amsterdam. And Antwerp, Duffel, Mechelen, den Bosch,
Charleroi, Leuven, K?ln, Dusseldorf, Paris, Copenhagen, Stockholm,
Madrid, Milan and a few others I can't remember off the top of my
head.

Okay, you've definitely been to European cities, and from your answer, i
assume you weren't talking about North America. So you've flat-out lost
your marbles, then.

I'm sure there are mediaeval towns in Europe with narrow, winding
streets. I don't know how many of these use bendy buses. I do know
that the squabble over property rights after the fire more or less put
the kibosh on widening the road in London more than a modest amount, and
this is acknowledged by Buchanan as a problem in London particularly.

London has some wide, straight streets, and some little wiggly streets.
Exactly the same is true of most European cities. Saying bendies are
appropriate for European cities but not London on account of differences
in their streets is simply incorrect.

tom

--
Once, at a fair on the Heath, [Geoffrey Fletcher] overheard a man saying
that Hampstead wasn't thrilling enough. Fletcher reached over in the
darkness and stuck an ice lolly down the back of his shirt.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Axe Greater London, i say. Let's have a mayor of London elected by people
who live in London, not some transcluded home counties buffoons who mostly
still insist that they live in 'Metropolitan Kent' or some such nonsense.

As one who grew up in north east Surrey can I say that Croydon, Sutton
and Kingston are London far more than they are Surrey!

I've usually got the impression that people who live there feel the
opposite, so it's interesting to hear a contrasting opinion.

And how would you decide who does and doesn't "live in London" - do I,
living in Forest Gate in Newham, "live in London"? It sure feels that
way, bendy bus & all.

Easy - anywhere that voted for Boris isn't, anywhere that voted for Ken
is!

More seriously, the question is not really about whether X is in London or
not, but whether the same policies are appropriate for P and Q. I don't
mean to suggest that Forest Gate isn't really in London, just that it's
possible that policies that are right for Forest Gate might not be right
for Finsbury Park. Although from what little i know of Newham, perhaps
they are - perhaps a better example for my case would be Friern Barnet and
Finsbury Park.

Where this idea falls apart is in the bank account. I would imagine that
the outer boroughs provide more per-capita funding than the inner ones
(BICBW), so trying to run Ken-style large public transport projects using
inner-London revenues might not be possible. You then get into arguments
like "well, inner London transport projects benefit outer Londoners who
work in inner London, so they should contribute towards them", but then it
all gets very complicated - my boss commutes down from rural Scotland
every week by plane, so should a share of his council tax be diverted to
every transport authority whose network he passes through? There's also a
question of scale - is Crossrail something that you just couldn't build if
only inner London was behind it, even if it had as much money per capita
as outer London?

tom

--
uk.local groups TO BE RENAMED uk.lunatic.fringe groups

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, MIG wrote:

On 28 July, 17:16, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, James Farrar wrote:
Offramp wrote in news:603ac8ce-e923-4513-acbe-
:

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best buses
ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

He's the Mayor; we elected him.

I bloody well didn't.

Axe Greater London, i say. Let's have a mayor of London elected by people
who live in London, not some transcluded home counties buffoons who mostly
still insist that they live in 'Metropolitan Kent' or some such nonsense.

The concept of a Mayor is undemocratic and intended to allow unelected
political party officials to override the views of elected council
members (and those they represent) while hiding behind the figurehead
of the Mayor.

When you say 'the concept of a mayor', do you mean 'the implementation of
a mayor as it is in London?'. If so, would you agree that the
implementation could be improved, and if not, could you explain why you
think a mayor is different to a president?

tom

--
uk.local groups TO BE RENAMED uk.lunatic.fringe groups

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:21:13 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

If it looks different to you, you must have a problem with perception.

Which I seem to share with many other cyclists.

Not this one. I have no problem at all with bendies. From what i remember,
none of the other cyclists on this group (that's right, Guy, there were a
few here already) had a beef with them either.

But maybe that's because i actually live in London, and so get to spend
more time with them.

tom

--
uk.local groups TO BE RENAMED uk.lunatic.fringe groups

On Jul 29, 12:44*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
It's now
become an entrenched myth that Thatcher abolished the GLC purely because of
Livingstone, but it would have been abolished anyway because of the
opposition of borough councils and the limited services it provided.

Hmm. Central government has the power to restructure local government.
Had the 1980s Tory government been primarily concerned with
administrative efficiency, it would have removed some powers from the
boroughs and some from itself and given them to the GLC (and also
GMCC). Instead, it wiped out that level of government completely.

....and it's planning to do the same again with the English regions.
And probably the feckin' GLA too. Grr.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In article ,
Bruce wrote:


Agree 100%. They aren't perfect by any means, and such aspects as
driving standards and fare dodging could definitely be improved. But
the alternative of more conventional buses with their greater dwell
times, costing more and clogging up the traffic far worse than the
bendys is just too silly to contemplate, unless your name is Boris.

We live on the 76 route - the Volvo buses are truly ghastly, with
horrendous noise levels. How they were approved for running in narrow
residential streets I can't fathom (except of course I can - it's about
the general lack of care we have for public transport and the
environment).

E.

In article ,
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:21:13 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

If it looks different to you, you must have a
problem with perception.

Which I seem to share with many other cyclists. So, given that I am a
very experienced cyclist and also a driver with significant experience
of driving goods vehicles, perhaps it's not just me. But that would
involve being open to the possibility that bendy buses may not be
appropriate for some routes in central London, and I do understand
that such heresy is not to be tolerated.

The London Cycling Campaign is on record as being much more worried
about lorries than bendies, noting only that they can be awkward in
narrow streets. I'll grant that Stoke Newington Church Street is not
great for bendies, but it's not great for any large vehicle. In my
street in N1 two double deckers cannot pass each other for most the
road. There is a sensible debate to be had for calming/limiting traffic
in all narrow residential roads.

E.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
rth.li...
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:00:56 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

You bloody what? When you say 'Continental', is the continent in
question
North America, or have you just lost your marbles? Or, perhaps, never
been
to a European city?

No, you're right, I've never been to a European city. Apart from
Brussels. And Amsterdam. And Antwerp, Duffel, Mechelen, den Bosch,
Charleroi, Leuven, K?ln, Dusseldorf, Paris, Copenhagen, Stockholm,
Madrid, Milan and a few others I can't remember off the top of my
head.

Okay, you've definitely been to European cities, and from your answer, i
assume you weren't talking about North America. So you've flat-out lost
your marbles, then.

I'm sure there are mediaeval towns in Europe with narrow, winding
streets. I don't know how many of these use bendy buses. I do know that
the squabble over property rights after the fire more or less put the
kibosh on widening the road in London more than a modest amount, and this
is acknowledged by Buchanan as a problem in London particularly.

London has some wide, straight streets, and some little wiggly streets.
Exactly the same is true of most European cities. Saying bendies are
appropriate for European cities but not London on account of differences
in their streets is simply incorrect.

Bendys are quite good at wiggly streets - better than a 40' rigid.

See http://www.henden.co.uk/bendyhosp.gif

For those who know Southampton, this is the road that goes around the rear
of the South Hants Hospital.

A 40' rigid - come to think of it, anything bigger than 30' - would get
stuck. Except a bendy.....

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0100, Marc
wrote:

No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway
code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians."

Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians
themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is
characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London
cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time!

Guy
I was getting there bit by bit.
Todays score was 2 cars going through a red light with 1 min of the
start of the journey.
1 van parked on a grass verge
1 range rover parked on a grass verge, ( in seperate places) both had
done so often enough to turn it into mud which they dragged onto pavemtn
and road when the towed their burger vans away
1 lorry forcing a car out of it's lane on a roundabout
3 cars stoped in a box junctions
1 van going through a light that had been so red you could measure it
with a sanddial
2 lorries mounting kerb

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:48:39 +0100, eastender
wrote:

The London Cycling Campaign is on record as being much more worried
about lorries than bendies

Rightly so.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk