In message , at 11:06:45 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:

I don't do formal jackets as I get quite hot so the first thing I would
do on walking in the office is take it off.

You need to look into lightweight suits/jackets.

One type doesn't fit all weathers, and I reckon at least four are
required to cope with the different seasons.

And I've never really understood high heels on women, they don't really
do anything for me, just strike me as a bit impractical and silly.

Apparently they "do things" for other men, which is why the women wear
them.
--
Roland Perry

On 2015-03-13 12:40:35 +0000, Roland Perry said:

You need to look into lightweight suits/jackets

Or just not wear a suit, which works for most employers these days.

Apparently they "do things" for other men, which is why the women wear them.

I wonder what proportion.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 13:26:16 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:
You need to look into lightweight suits/jackets

Or just not wear a suit, which works for most employers these days.

The only employer I have to impress is myself.

On the other hand I do what I can, to fail to unimpress the people I'm
working with.

I went to a quite serious meeting in London yesterday and was in two
minds whether or not to wear a suit and tie.

The decision was a suit but no tie, and the result was that of the men
in the meeting: the chair and one other attendee were wearing a suit and
a tie, and myself and another were wearing a suit and no tie. Two other
men were wearing something more casual, which in the case of the most
casual was commented by other attendees on in a jokey, but not
necessarily positive, way.

Had the meeting been at the UN in Geneva (or somewhere similar), all the
men would have been wearing suit and tie - except a very few wearing
ethnic costume, which I don't at all disagree with, because a suit and
tie is precisely *my* ethnic costume.

But I draw a line at the bowler hat, just as the Aussies don't turn up
with corks dangling from their hats.

Apparently they "do things" for other men, which is why the women wear them.

I wonder what proportion.

The men or the women? Probably around 75% in both cases.
--
Roland Perry

On 2015-03-13 13:50:02 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 13:26:16 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:
You need to look into lightweight suits/jackets

Or just not wear a suit, which works for most employers these days.

The only employer I have to impress is myself.

On the other hand I do what I can, to fail to unimpress the people I'm
working with.

I went to a quite serious meeting in London yesterday and was in two
minds whether or not to wear a suit and tie.

The decision was a suit but no tie

I've noticed that Evan Davis does the same now on Newsnight. As the
style police have said, "Even a good suit looks cheap without a tie."

E.

On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:56:40 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2015-03-13 13:50:02 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 13:26:16 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:
You need to look into lightweight suits/jackets

Or just not wear a suit, which works for most employers these days.

The only employer I have to impress is myself.

On the other hand I do what I can, to fail to unimpress the people I'm
working with.

I went to a quite serious meeting in London yesterday and was in two
minds whether or not to wear a suit and tie.

The decision was a suit but no tie

I've noticed that Evan Davis does the same now on Newsnight. As the
style police have said, "Even a good suit looks cheap without a tie."

He wears a tie some days -- perhaps it depends on who he'll be
interviewing? I don't think he was much of a tie wearer before
getting that job, and judging by his tweets, he was in two minds about
whether to wear one at all. Didn't Paxo also occasionally appear
tie-less?

On 2015-03-13 13:50:02 +0000, Roland Perry said:

The decision was a suit but no tie, and the result was that of the men
in the meeting: the chair and one other attendee were wearing a suit
and a tie, and myself and another were wearing a suit and no tie. Two
other men were wearing something more casual, which in the case of the
most casual was commented by other attendees on in a jokey, but not
necessarily positive, way.

Convention no doubt, but I totally fail to understand why an
ill-fitting piece of old fashioned dress and a bit of fabric
constricting your breathing is superior to, say, a neat company-branded
polo shirt or a short-sleeved shirt without tie, and a pair of chinos.

Maybe I should live in the US. Or Hoxton

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 17:08:13 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:
The decision was a suit but no tie, and the result was that of the
men in the meeting: the chair and one other attendee were wearing a
suit and a tie, and myself and another were wearing a suit and no
tie. Two other men were wearing something more casual, which in the
case of the most casual was commented by other attendees on in a
jokey, but not necessarily positive, way.

Convention no doubt, but I totally fail to understand why an
ill-fitting piece of old fashioned dress

My suits fit better than my other clothing.

and a bit of fabric constricting your breathing

It doesn't.

is superior

Looks smart and has lots of pockets.

to, say, a neat company-branded polo shirt

I don't have any of those branded with my company, and all the ones
branded with other people's company have been over-used for my DIY
escapades.

or a short-sleeved shirt without tie, and a pair of chinos.

That's what I'd wear as "smart casual", but not every meeting is
appropriate for that.

--
Roland Perry

On 2015-03-13 17:21:20 +0000, Roland Perry said:

My suits fit better than my other clothing.

No doubt you're the pinnacle of sartorial elegance. But most
suit-wearers aren't, I observe.

and a bit of fabric constricting your breathing

It doesn't.

It does for me. I absolutely hate having things tight round my neck.

is superior

Looks smart and has lots of pockets.

Other clothes can look smart provided they are neat and properly ironed.

or a short-sleeved shirt without tie, and a pair of chinos.

That's what I'd wear as "smart casual", but not every meeting is
appropriate for that.

Indeed not, though I do wish business would grow up a bit and stop
worrying about what people wear and worry more about what they do and
say. Within reason of course.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 18:19:15 on Fri, 13
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:
On 2015-03-13 17:21:20 +0000, Roland Perry said:

My suits fit better than my other clothing.

No doubt you're the pinnacle of sartorial elegance. But most
suit-wearers aren't, I observe.

and a bit of fabric constricting your breathing
It doesn't.

It does for me. I absolutely hate having things tight round my neck.

Something's wrong if it's tight.

is superior
Looks smart and has lots of pockets.

Other clothes can look smart provided they are neat and properly ironed.

Look neat and tidy perhaps. There's a reason for the term "smart
casual".

or a short-sleeved shirt without tie, and a pair of chinos.
That's what I'd wear as "smart casual", but not every meeting is
appropriate for that.

Indeed not, though I do wish business would grow up a bit and stop
worrying about what people wear and worry more about what they do and
say. Within reason of course.

In the literal sense, a suit is a 'uniform' (everyone the same), which
means to opposite of what you imply - ie everyone can express an opinion
without people making prior judgements because of the way they dress.

It's also a great leveller on price and availability - anyone can get
the outfit (which will last for ages).

And there's nothing more distracting than one person turning up in £500
worth of Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen impression. The first thought through
many people's minds will be "did he get dressed in the dark and forgot
to put on his cufflinks?"
--
Roland Perry

On 2015-03-14 12:05:03 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Something's wrong if it's tight.

I'm only comfortable if it's so loose it looks untidy.

And there's nothing more distracting than one person turning up in £500
worth of Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen impression. The first thought through
many people's minds will be "did he get dressed in the dark and forgot
to put on his cufflinks?"

Only if they're really uptight about dress. But then I suppose Sir
Alan's part of the IT industry was curiously formal compared with the
rest of it.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.